South African embassy

Thank you Jizzie, I won't say anything official yet as we have just started talking but maybe in the future we can work something out for future PTO's if needed where we will have a mutual respected agreement that if one country is safe and the other is at danger then an agreement may be able to be reached for the transportation of a certain number of voters to be transfered at the cost of the country under attack.

Like I say lets just keep this in the pipeline for now but this has obvious mutual benefits for both countries and could be easily implemented if required by simply purchasing something like 100 moving tickets at a cost of 20g+ or thereabouts.

NOTE TO INDIANS - This is just an option not an agreement.

Jizzie McGuire wrote:I guess I should say that India is fortunate to have gained some of their land back peacefully. I wish we could have done the same, but Indonesia would not talk to us and our population was extremely restless and frustrated.

Indonesia NEVER gave any regions to India willingly:
1) Orissa: after Indonesia TO'd and assimilated India, Romania gave us Orissa from Pakistan, which it had TO'd
2) Tamil Nadu: Indonesia free'd Tamil Nadu so that Romania couldn't get through to Karnataka without declaring war on India and conquering Tamil Nadu.

Sounds good, David. That is more than I expected from just one day on your forum, but since I started talking to Brood last month I realized we have a lot in common and can benefit each other greatly. I will mention your PTO idea to our president as an option to defend against future attacks as I believe we will both be at risk as long as Romania and Indonesia are going at it. Of course, our Congress will have to support the idea just as India's will.

Thanks for clearing that up Ne0, but I didn't actually say they did so willingly, but peacefully (but even that appears debatable). Sorry for my ignorance of the details eIndian history, but I appreciate you guys filling me in.

I don't think the Indos do anything willingly unless it benefits them. We have no illusions that the Romanians allied with us for their benefit as well, but they have never invaded or made any threatening moves against us. We'll deal with them later if we have to, but for now we oppose only those who occupy eSA - Indonesia and Brazil.

As you all know by now, South Africa was PTO'd by Brazil and Indonesia and will soon be under PEACE rule. However, I will remain the Ambassador to India under the legitimate eSA government in exile from my base in the Canary Islands. Gabriel Borien is the true South African president, regardless of the puppet PEACE installs. South Africa has vowed to continue fighting until our land is free and PEACE is destroyed.

Jizzie I am so sorry for your loss I sincerly wish we could have done more for you but our limited resources were stretched all over the place.

We had to get our men into congress in Indonesia which we did successful and now control 7.5% of indonesian votes, we also tried to help youself, china and north korea and we could do no more.

Im not sure if this is of interest but your people would be more than welcome to set up a temporay home in Orissa in India, we have plenty of jobs, war games, Q5 Hospital and many other great benefits and if you need a home to regroup then you always have a friend in India and when the times comes we will help you release your land.

Thank you, David. I understand your difficulties and appreciate any help your country sent. I will pass your generous offer on to free South Africans who wish to carry on the fight. Most have chosen to go to Florida to fight with our American allies, but there is talk of fighting Indonesia from within and teaching them a lesson in PTOs along with our more populous American friends. Hopefully we can coordinate with India as well.

OK yes the Indonesians could lose everything if they lose the election battle on the 5th to the Matza PTO party who control 50% of their country now.

Will be very interesting to see how many ppl who have been upset by Indo go and vote against them.

Our current president is working with the US president to coordinate support for the Matza party. All of South Africa and many Americans will be voting for Matza in the next Indo elections, I am sure. Indonesia will pay dearly for what they have done. What goes around comes around.

Lol. Atlantis always complains about PTOs, and yet their doing the same thing to Italy and even Indonesia.

Also, don't forget that the first PTO in eRepublik was done by Romania in Russia...

Also, South Africa basically backstabbed Indonesia during the war against Romania by joining Atlantis in Indonesia's darkest hour. If I were Indonesia, I would do the exact same thing as they have done. Perhaps if South Africa had negotiated with Indonesia, like how we did and how Australia did, you would still have your country now?

Indeed, what goes around always comes around

Actually, contrary to popular belief, we never joined ATLANTIS. We didn't backstab anyone. We had been trying to negotiate with them for months, but they refused to even speak with us. We gave them plenty of warnings.

ATLANTIS does not even exist, so the idea of them doing PTOs on Indonesia and Italy is a fantasy. We are tossing around the idea of finally giving the Indos a taste of their own medicine, but nothing has been done yet as far as I can tell. What the Romanians are doing there is their business. And SA can give a crap what Romania did to Russia. That had nothing to do with us.

The situation is a lot better than you might think.

Civfanatic, your views are certainly not shared by the majority in India, I sometimes wonder if you are Indonesian yourself with your anti atlantis/romania comments.

@civifanatic... Hmm i dont know how much its true...Bt wht i would say is , game is abt forgetting past & Move ahead..
And yes majority of eindia doesnt share this view...

The one thing that he is right about is that countries like the USA and SA have traditionally opposed PTOs and complained about Indonesia using such underhanded tactics. Maybe now they have finally come to realize that if they are going to stop Indonesia, they'll have to beat them at their own game. The US certainly has the population (increased recently by eSA refugees) to PTO even a country as big as Indonesia.

I am not privy to all of their plans, so I can't say if they actuallly intend to PTO Indo, but I do know that the US is finally ready to get organized and consider all their options. Maybe the PTO and conquest of SA was good in that it finally woke some people up.

@ Jizzie

Quite frankly, your previous post is full of lies. During the Indo-Romanian war, South Africa made alliances with the USA, Croatia, Romania, UK, Spain, Poland, and Canada. Remember, ATLANTIS was perfectly alive when SA signed the alliances, and all those countries were members of ATLANTIS. After signing these alliances, SA promptly declared war on Indonesia. I don't know what you guys intended to do, because Brazil interfered at that point, and SA and Indonesia no longer shared a border.

Please tell me how the above actions do not constitute a "backstabbing".
Also, giving "warnings" is generally not a good method of negotiation. Perhaps you need a better MoFA?

The "Matzanesia Party" in Indonesia is run by ex-Romanians who are attempting to PTO Indonesia. The Theocrats of Switzerland, with the help of some Americans, tried to PTO Italy. So I should not say that ATLANTIS tried to PTO anyone, since they no longer exist, but rather the former ATLANTIS.

And do not even try denying those above two PTOs. I've done plenty of research on both of them and know for a fact that they were attempted.

And finally, the fact that you are openly supporting a PTO against Indonesia shows that you are nothing more than a hypocrite. You say that SA "has traditionally opposed PTOs", but you yourself are now supporting one! Either you do not speak for the majority of SA, or the whole of SA is full of hypocrites.

David Forde wrote:Civfanatic, your views are certainly not shared by the majority in India, I sometimes wonder if you are Indonesian yourself with your anti atlantis/romania comments.

1. I understand that most people in India are very pro-Romanian and think that Romania are saviors who will save India from the evils of Indonesian tyranny. I do not share this view, because I believe it is false. Indonesia and Romania are both imperialist nations who exploit weaker countries for their own benefit. To me, they are equally as bad, and I support neither one. I only support India, but only if India remains neutral.

2. I am a RL Indian and love this eNation as much as I love RL India. I find it offensive that you accuse me of being an Indonesian, just because I do not agree with the majority of Indians. I am entitled to my own opinion, and I will continue to freely express it.

3. It is true that I am strongly anti-ATLANTIS and anti-Romania, but I am not pro-PEACE or pro-Indonesia either. As I have said before, I support absolute neutrality for India, nothing more and nothing less.

Shail wrote:@civifanatic... Hmm i dont know how much its true...Bt wht i would say is , game is abt forgetting past & Move ahead..
And yes majority of eindia doesnt share this view...

I agree with you Shail, we should forgive, forget, and move on. Then tell me, why do so many Indians have a hard time forgiving Indonesia and building better relations with them? Why do so many Indians want to ally with Romania/former ATLANTIS countries and start a new "war of Independence"? I think it is a very naive and childish way of thinking.

You really have no idea what went on, do you? Either that or you are swallowing everything Indo says. Yes we did join with those nations, but were never accepted officially into ATLANTIS. We never even applied. I made those alliances personally, so know the situation intimately. There is a difference between allying with individual nations and joining ATLANTIS, but I suppose you wouldn't know that having never spoken with its representatives. That could be why we never got the full support of all those nations or that alliance. I also attempted to ally with PEACE and neutral nations like India, Australia, Argentina and Malaysia, but was turned down. We never cared about joining ATLANTIS, but since Indo refused to speak to us, I saw no alternative but to ally with larger nations to protect eSA from Indo aggression and to help us win back our country. You would know all that if you read up on both sides rather than believing everything Indo tells you.

Maybe I mis-spoke when I said "warnings." What I did mean is that I personally wrote to two Indo presidents on at least 3 occasions asking for negotiations as well as posted an article in their media explaining that eSA wanted to normalize relations with Indonesia and enter negotiations. I also know that at least 3 previous eSA presidents had made similar overtures. All of which were either ignored or ridiculed or both. The one "warning" I gave was after several futile attempts at talks, when I said that if Indo will not give us the time of day, we will have to seek the Liberation of our lands through other means. Perhaps I shouldn't have said that, but I thought I'd be honest and up front with, which is apparently an alien concept to them.

Like I said, we have nothing to do with Theocrats and even refused their help recently as they had tried to PTO South Africa as well in the past. What they are doing now is none of our business and we have never supported anything they have done. Since you clearly know nothing of eSA politics or history, you probably are not aware of our mutual hatred with the Theocraps as we call them.

I don't know much about "Matzanesia" but if they are fighting to end Indo imperialism then good for them. Again, that has nothing to do with eSA. As for the Romanians themselves, they did help us some to stop the last PTO attempt by Brazil, but other than that, they haven't been that close of an ally. I initially opposed allying with them because I didn't agree with their tactics, but their president proposed the MPP and the eSA congress approved it. My successor and I never intended to re-new that MPP when the time came. In that case, it was "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I totally agree that Romania is little better than Indonesia, but at least Romania was willing to talk to South Africa and treat us with some semblance of respect. We also had no fear of a Romanian take-over, while Indo continued to threaten us even while we begged them to have talks with us. I certainly wanted nothing to do with Romania, but Indonesia left us with few alternatives. I was happy to keep US, UK and Spain as the anchors of our alliance, but Romania were the only ones taking the fight directly to the enemy at the time.

I'm not denying any PTOs. I'm saying we aren't involved and technically neither is ATLANTIS since ATLANTIS doesn't exist. The fact that some Americans support a PTO in Italy does not mean all the US supports it. I'm sure you can find some South Africans who support Indonesia too, but that doesn't mean all of eSA ever did. Looks like some Indians are also Indo mouthpieces too, but clearly that does not reflect all of India as your countrymen have shown.

Have you even bothered reading what I said? I said that we have traditionally opposed PTOs, and that is true. I dare you to find a single instance where eSA PTO'd or even supported the PTO of another nation. However, we ourselves have been PTO'd at least 3 times while I have been there, and quite frankly, we have had enough of being pushed around. I still am opposed to PTOs in principle, but if that is going to be the weapon of choice for PEACE, then we have to do the same if we hope to have any success. Since Indo has consistently refused to speak to us or to even fight like men, I don't see any other alternative but to beat them at their own game. I can't speak for all of SA on this, and since you clearly are in the Indo's pocket, I wouldn't tell you what eSA thinks or plans anyway.

Jizzie McGuire wrote:You really have no idea what went on, do you? Either that or you are swallowing everything Indo says. Yes we did join with those nations, but were never accepted officially into ATLANTIS. We never even applied. I made those alliances personally, so know the situation intimately. There is a difference between allying with individual nations and joining ATLANTIS, but I suppose you wouldn't know that having never spoken with its representatives. That could be why we never got the full support of all those nations or that alliance. I also attempted to ally with PEACE and neutral nations like India, Australia, Argentina and Malaysia, but was turned down. We never cared about joining ATLANTIS, but since Indo refused to speak to us, I saw no alternative but to ally with larger nations to protect eSA from Indo aggression and to help us win back our country. You would know all that if you read up on both sides rather than believing everything Indo tells you.

First of all, I have a rather good idea of what goes on. For an ordinary Indian congressman, anyway. Whether or not you "joined" ATLANTIS, your alliances with ATLANTIS countries were clearly provocative. Had you waited, like India and Australia, your country would never have been PTOed/conquered. Instead, you chose to strike at Indonesia during their weakest moment. Trust me, India has had firsthand experience of this as well. We tried being Romania's puppet once and we blocked Indonesia during the wars three months ago. As a result, we were PTOed by Indonesia and lost our independence for two months!

Second of all, I do not blindly listen to what Indonesians have to say. I can't understand half of their articles anyway due to their bad grammar. Same with the Romanian articles. What I do try to do, however, is conduct my own research and read the media on both sides as much as possible.

Maybe I mis-spoke when I said "warnings." What I did mean is that I personally wrote to two Indo presidents on at least 3 occasions asking for negotiations as well as posted an article in their media explaining that eSA wanted to normalize relations with Indonesia and enter negotiations. I also know that at least 3 previous eSA presidents had made similar overtures. All of which were either ignored or ridiculed or both. The one "warning" I gave was after several futile attempts at talks, when I said that if Indo will not give us the time of day, we will have to seek the Liberation of our lands through other means. Perhaps I shouldn't have said that, but I thought I'd be honest and up front with, which is apparently an alien concept to them.

This is just my opinion, but I think that was a major blunder on your part. From my experience, threatening "forced liberation" usually guarantees a PTO. Why couldn't you have just waited like us and the Australians? Did you know that we just got back our 4th region from Indo today? And we're going to get back ALL of our regions. Our patience and respect towards Indo has payed off. There is no reason why the same tactic wouldn't work for SA.

Like I said, we have nothing to do with Theocrats and even refused their help recently as they had tried to PTO South Africa as well in the past. What they are doing now is none of our business and we have never supported anything they have done. Since you clearly know nothing of eSA politics or history, you probably are not aware of our mutual hatred with the Theocraps as we call them.

I agree, I don't know much about eSA politics and history, just like you don't know much of eIndian politics/history, and someone from Malaysia doesn't know much about either.

I am, however, free to read the media, watch the news, and ask questions as often as I like. From those things, and others, I get all the information that I need to know.

I don't know much about "Matzanesia" but if they are fighting to end Indo imperialism then good for them. Again, that has nothing to do with eSA. As for the Romanians themselves, they did help us some to stop the last PTO attempt by Brazil, but other than that, they haven't been that close of an ally. I initially opposed allying with them because I didn't agree with their tactics, but their president proposed the MPP and the eSA congress approved it. My successor and I never intended to re-new that MPP when the time came. In that case, it was "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I totally agree that Romania is little better than Indonesia, but at least Romania was willing to talk to South Africa and treat us with some semblance of respect. We also had no fear of a Romanian take-over, while Indo continued to threaten us even while we begged them to have talks with us. I certainly wanted nothing to do with Romania, but Indonesia left us with few alternatives. I was happy to keep US, UK and Spain as the anchors of our alliance, but Romania were the only ones taking the fight directly to the enemy at the time.

The Matzanesian Party is a PTO party, nothing more and nothing less. I find it ironic that you are okay with Matzanesia since they are "fighting to end Indo imperialism" while you complain about your own country getting PTOed.

The fact that your congress signed an alliance with Romania is another major blunder, in my opinion. The excuse that "indonesia left us with few alternatives" is not a valid one. We felt the same way at one point, but instead of signing the alliance and casting ourselves into the romanian camp, we remained neutral and continued negotiations. In the end, it worked for us, and could have worked for SA too.

I'm not denying any PTOs. I'm saying we aren't involved and technically neither is ATLANTIS since ATLANTIS doesn't exist. The fact that some Americans support a PTO in Italy does not mean all the US supports it. I'm sure you can find some South Africans who support Indonesia too, but that doesn't mean all of eSA ever did. Looks like some Indians are also Indo mouthpieces too, but clearly that does not reflect all of India as your countrymen have shown.

Indeed, you are right. That some people of any nation support something does not mean the whole country does. Why can't you apply this to Indonesia as well, instead of just your friends?

Once again, I am not a mouthpiece of Indonesia, and I would greatly appreciate it if you stop accusing me of such a thing. I stand for a prosperous, united, and neutral India. Not for Indonesia, Romania, PEACE, ATLANTIS, or anything else.

Have you even bothered reading what I said? I said that we have traditionally opposed PTOs, and that is true. I dare you to find a single instance where eSA PTO'd or even supported the PTO of another nation.

Actually, yes, I read everything you said. I make sure to listen to everything someone says during a debate or conversation.

And I can easily find an example of SA supporting a PTO: right now, you supporting the Romanian PTO against Indonesia. I am right, no?

However, we ourselves have been PTO'd at least 3 times while I have been there, and quite frankly, we have had enough of being pushed around. I still am opposed to PTOs in principle, but if that is going to be the weapon of choice for PEACE, then we have to do the same if we hope to have any success. Since Indo has consistently refused to speak to us or to even fight like men, I don't see any other alternative but to beat them at their own game. I can't speak for all of SA on this, and since you clearly are in the Indo's pocket, I wouldn't tell you what eSA thinks or plans anyway.

Its perfectly all right. I don't really care what you eSouth Africans are planning anyway
If you are planning anything at all, that is.

But I do hope you carefully read what I just wrote. Also try to get rid of the notion that I am "in the Indo's pocket", as I find that offensive and untrue. I would like you to read my words from an unbiased standpoint.


Regards, and all the best for you and South Africa.